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	<title>XMPP &#8211; WindfluechterNet Blog</title>
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	<link>https://blog.windfluechter.net</link>
	<description>&#34;Allen Gewalten zum Trotz sich erhalten&#34;</description>
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		<title>XMPP and the effect of providers.xmpp.net</title>
		<link>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2022/08/13/xmpp-and-the-effect-of-providers-xmpp-net/</link>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ij]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2022 16:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Debian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Server]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[XMPP]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.windfluechter.net/?p=3344</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some of you may already know that I&#8217;m operating an XMPP server. So far there are several domains running on that XMPP server and two domains are open for public registration. Namely these domains are hookipa.net and xmpp.social. You can... <a href="https://blog.windfluechter.net/2022/08/13/xmpp-and-the-effect-of-providers-xmpp-net/" class="readmore">Read more<span class="screen-reader-text">XMPP and the effect of providers.xmpp.net</span><span class="fa fa-angle-double-right" aria-hidden="true"></span></a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Some of you may already know that I&#8217;m operating an XMPP server. So far there are several domains running on that XMPP server and two domains are open for public registration. Namely these domains are hookipa.net and xmpp.social. You can find the service under the main domain on <a href="https://hookipa.net">https://hookipa.net</a>. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Interesting in this is, that for some time xmpp.social seemed to be the domain of choice for many users, maybe because of &#8220;xmpp&#8221; and &#8220;social&#8221; in the domain name &#8211; or because it is easier to name it than &#8220;hookipa&#8221; with &#8220;double-oh&#8221; and &#8220;kay&#8221;&#8230; who knows&#8230; </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">So, the user counts on xmpp.social were rising in a steeper curve than for hookipa.net, so much that I even considered to move over to xmpp.social for the main domain of that website. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">But then something happened: the <a href="https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers" data-type="URL" data-id="https://invent.kde.org/melvo/xmpp-providers">curated list of XMPP providers</a>, which is now available under <a href="https://providers.xmpp.net">https://providers.xmpp.net</a>. Since then some client software apps included the list, e.g. <a href="https://github.com/UWPX/UWPX-Client/issues/158#ref-commit-0dd8c0e" data-type="URL" data-id="https://github.com/UWPX/UWPX-Client/issues/158#ref-commit-0dd8c0e">uwpx</a>, and the user count was rising on hookipa.net &#8211; while it slowed down on xmpp.social. </p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img fetchpriority="high" decoding="async" width="897" height="584" src="https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/ejabberd_registrations-pinpoint16266225531660664153.png" alt="" class="wp-image-3345" srcset="https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/ejabberd_registrations-pinpoint16266225531660664153.png 897w, https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/ejabberd_registrations-pinpoint16266225531660664153-640x417.png 640w, https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/ejabberd_registrations-pinpoint16266225531660664153-768x500.png 768w" sizes="(max-width: 897px) 100vw, 897px" /><figcaption>Red curve: xmpp.social, blue curve: hookipa.net</figcaption></figure>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Here you can see that the red curve of xmpp.social was for a long time above the blue curve of hookipa.net. Approx. in August 2021 something changed and hookipa.net was steadily increasing its user count. After a year, roughly in August 2022 hookipa.net surpassed the user count of xmpp.social. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Reason for this might be that hookipa.net is listed under Class A provider on providers.xmpp.net. Class A just means that some certain criteria is met like open registration and such. It doesn&#8217;t say anything whether or not it is a well-operated service. Well, at least not directly. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">You can also look at the graphs on https://the-federation.info about the <a href="https://the-federation.info/node/hookipa.net" data-type="URL" data-id="https://the-federation.info/node/hookipa.net">increase on hookipa.net</a> and the <a href="https://the-federation.info/node/xmpp.social" data-type="URL" data-id="https://the-federation.info/node/xmpp.social">stagnation on xmpp.social</a>. There you can see the difference between a service that is listed on such a providers list and one that isn&#8217;t listed. Both domains are equally operated on my server and when you visit the Hookipa website you can register for both domains. But currently a downside (for me) of providers.xmpp.net is, that you need to provide the data for your classification on a website. Hookipa has a website, xmpp.social not, because it redirects to hookipa.net. Therefor xmpp.social is not included on providers.xmpp.net and thus is not gaining that many new users than hookipa.net. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I find that quite interesting, how registration counts are shifted from one domain to the other over time and what leads to that shift. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">If you want to know which XMPP apps make use of the providers list, you can have a look at <a href="https://providers.xmpp.net/apps/">https://providers.xmpp.net/apps/</a>.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>XMPP and Mail Clients</title>
		<link>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2022/01/31/xmpp-and-mail-clients/</link>
					<comments>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2022/01/31/xmpp-and-mail-clients/#comments</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ij]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2022 20:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Debian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mail]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[XMPP]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.windfluechter.net/?p=3321</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I really like XMPP, but I&#8217;m a little unhappy about the current general situation of XMPP. I think XMPP could do better if there were some benefits of having an XMPP address. For me one of those benefits is to... <a href="https://blog.windfluechter.net/2022/01/31/xmpp-and-mail-clients/" class="readmore">Read more<span class="screen-reader-text">XMPP and Mail Clients</span><span class="fa fa-angle-double-right" aria-hidden="true"></span></a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I really like XMPP, but I&#8217;m a little unhappy about the current general situation of XMPP. I think XMPP could do better if there were some benefits of having an XMPP address. For me one of those benefits is to have the option to have just one address I need to communicate to others. If everything is in place and well-configured, a user can be reached by mail, XMPP and SIP (voice/video calls) by just one address. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">To address this I would like to see XMPP support in mail clients (MUAs). So when you reply to a mail or write a new one, the client will do a lookup in your addressbook if the address has an XMPP field associated with it and (if not) do a DNS lookup for _xmpp-server._tcp.example.com (or the matching domain part of recipients address). If there is an XMPP address listed in mail header, that JID will be used. When the lookup is successful and an xmpp: protocol handler is configured in the system, the MUA offers an option to begin a chat with the recipient and/or displays the presence status of the recipients (depending on available web-presence or presence subscription). </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Basically a good candidate could be Thunderbird, because it already has XMPP support built in, albeit not a good implementation and lacking many modern features like OMEMO. But for basic functions (like presence status and such) it should be sufficient for a start. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Other candidates could be Evolution, Kmail (as KDE MUA and Kaidan as a native KDE XMPP client) or even Apple Mail.app, because Apples addressbook supports XMPP fields for each contact. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Basically the same could be done for SIP contacts: if a SIP SRV record for that domain does exist, the MUA could offer an option to call the recipient. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I would be willing to give some money via Bountysource or similar platforms. Is anyone aware of such a project or willing to write some addons? Maybe within the GSoC?</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">PS: there is <a href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7259.html">RFC7259</a> about Jabber/XMPP JID in mail headers and there is also a page in the <a href="https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Jabber_Email_Header">XMPP.org wiki</a>. </p>
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		<item>
		<title>LetsEncrypt CA Chain Issues with Ejabberd</title>
		<link>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2021/09/29/letsencrypt-ca-chain-issues-with-ejabberd/</link>
					<comments>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2021/09/29/letsencrypt-ca-chain-issues-with-ejabberd/#comments</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ij]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Debian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ejabberd]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LetsEncrypt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Server]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[XMPP]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.windfluechter.net/?p=3301</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[UPDATE: It&#8217;s not as simple as described below, I&#8217;m afraid&#8230; It appears that it&#8217;s not that easy to obtain new/correct certs from LetsEncrypt that are not cross-signed by DST Root X3 CA. Additionally older OpenSSL version (1.0.x) seems to have... <a href="https://blog.windfluechter.net/2021/09/29/letsencrypt-ca-chain-issues-with-ejabberd/" class="readmore">Read more<span class="screen-reader-text">LetsEncrypt CA Chain Issues with Ejabberd</span><span class="fa fa-angle-double-right" aria-hidden="true"></span></a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">UPDATE: <br>It&#8217;s not as simple as described below, I&#8217;m afraid&#8230; It appears that it&#8217;s not that easy to obtain new/correct certs from LetsEncrypt that are not cross-signed by DST Root X3 CA. Additionally older OpenSSL version (1.0.x) seems to have problems. So even when you think that your system is now ok, the remote server might refuse to accept your SSL cert. The same is valid for the SSL check on xmpp.net, which seems to be very outdated and beyond repair. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Honestly, I think the solution needs to be provided by LetsEncrypt&#8230;  </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I was having some strange issues on my ejabberd XMPP server the other day: some users complained that they couldn&#8217;t connect anymore to the MUC rooms on my server and in the logfiles I discovered some weird warnings about LetsEncrypt certificates being expired &#8211; although they were just new and valid until end of December. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">It looks like this:</p>



<pre class="wp-block-preformatted"><code>[warning] &lt;0.368.0&gt;@ejabberd_pkix:log_warnings/1:393 Invalid certificate in /etc/letsencrypt.sh/certs/buildd.net/fullchain.pem: at line 37: certificate is no longer valid as its expiration date has passed</code></pre>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">and&#8230;</p>



<pre class="wp-block-preformatted">[warning] &lt;0.18328.2&gt;@ejabberd_s2s_out:process_closed/2:157 Failed to establish outbound s2s connection nerdica.net -&gt; forum.friendi.ca: Stream closed by peer: Your server's certificate is invalid, expired, or not trusted by forum.friendi.ca (not-authorized); bouncing for 237 seconds</pre>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">When checking out with some online tools like SSLlabs or XMPP.net the result was strange, because SSLlabs reported everything was ok while XMPP.net was showing the chain with X3 and D3 certs as having a short term validity of a few days: </p>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-full"><img decoding="async" width="741" height="315" src="https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Bildschirmfoto-2021-09-29-um-23.35.26.png" alt="" class="wp-image-3302" srcset="https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Bildschirmfoto-2021-09-29-um-23.35.26.png 741w, https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Bildschirmfoto-2021-09-29-um-23.35.26-640x272.png 640w" sizes="(max-width: 741px) 100vw, 741px" /></figure>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">After some days of fiddling around with the issue, trying to find a solution, it appears that there is a problem in Ejabberd when there are some old SSL certifcates being found by Ejabberd that are using the old CA chain. Ejabberd has a really nice feature where you can just configure a SSL cert directory (or a path containing wildcars. Ejabberd then reads all of the SSL certs and compare them to the list of configured domains to see which it will need and which not. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">What helped (for me at least) was to delete all expired SSL certs from my directory, downloading the current CA file pems from LetsEncrypt (see their <a href="https://letsencrypt.org/2020/09/17/new-root-and-intermediates.html">blog post from September 2020</a>), run <code>update-ca-certificates</code> and <code>ejabberdctl restart</code> (instead of just <code>ejabberdctl reload-config</code>). UPDATE: be sure to use dpkg-reconfigure ca-certificates to uncheck the DST Root X3 cert (and others if necessary) before renewing the certs or running update-ca-certificates. Otherwise the update will bring in the expired cert again. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Currently I see at least two other XMPP domains in my server logs having certicate issues and in some MUCs there are reports of other domains as well.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Disclaimer: Again: this helped me in my case. I don&#8217;t know if this is a bug in Ejabberd or if this procedure will help you in your case nor if this is the proper solution. But maybe my story will help you solving your issue if you experience SSL certs issues in the last few days, especially now that the R3 cert has already expired and the X3 cert following in a few hours. </p>
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		<item>
		<title>The Fediverse &#8211; What About Resources?</title>
		<link>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2021/05/01/the-fediverse-what-about-ressources/</link>
					<comments>https://blog.windfluechter.net/2021/05/01/the-fediverse-what-about-ressources/#comments</comments>
		
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ij]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2021 15:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Debian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fediverse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Matrix]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[XMPP]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://blog.windfluechter.net/?p=3260</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Today ist May, 1st. In about two weeks on May, 15th WhatsApp will put their changed Terms of Service into action and when you don&#8217;t accept their rules you won&#8217;t be able to use WhatsApp any longer. Early this year... <a href="https://blog.windfluechter.net/2021/05/01/the-fediverse-what-about-ressources/" class="readmore">Read more<span class="screen-reader-text">The Fediverse &#8211; What About Resources?</span><span class="fa fa-angle-double-right" aria-hidden="true"></span></a>]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Today ist May, 1st. In about two weeks on May, 15th WhatsApp will put their changed Terms of Service into action and when you don&#8217;t accept their rules you won&#8217;t be able to use WhatsApp any longer. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Early this year there was already a strong movement away from WhatsApp towards other solutions. Mainly to Signal, but also some other services like the Fediverse gained some new users. And also XMPP got their fair share of new users. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">So, what to do about the WhatsApp ToS change then? Shall we go all to Signal? Surely not. Signal is another vendor lock-in silo. It&#8217;s centralistic and recent development plans want to implement some crypto payment system. Even <a href="https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/04/wtf-signal-adds-cryptocurrency-support.html" data-type="URL" data-id="https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2021/04/wtf-signal-adds-cryptocurrency-support.html">Bruce Schneier</a> thinks that this is a bad idea. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Other alternatives often named include Matrix/Element or XMPP. Today, <a href="https://social.anoxinon.de/@favstarmafia/106159441987203559" data-type="URL" data-id="https://social.anoxinon.de/@favstarmafia/106159441987203559">Don di Dislessia</a> in the (german) Fediverse asked about power consumption of the Fediverse incl. Matrix and XMPP and how much renewable energy is being used. Of course there is no easy answer to this question, but I tried my best &#8211; at least for my own server. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Here are my findings and conclusions&#8230; </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Power</h2>



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img decoding="async" width="1354" height="393" src="https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Bildschirmfoto-2021-05-01-um-16.00.43.png" alt="screenshot showing power consumption of server" class="wp-image-3261" srcset="https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Bildschirmfoto-2021-05-01-um-16.00.43.png 1354w, https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Bildschirmfoto-2021-05-01-um-16.00.43-640x186.png 640w, https://blog.windfluechter.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Bildschirmfoto-2021-05-01-um-16.00.43-768x223.png 768w" sizes="(max-width: 1354px) 100vw, 1354px" /><figcaption>screenshot showing power consumption of server</figcaption></figure>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Currently my server in the colocation is using about 93W in average with 6c Xeon E5-2630L, 128 GB RAM, 4x 2 TB WD Red + 1 Samsung 960pro NVMe. The server is 7 years old. When I started with that server the power consumption was about 75W, but back then there were far less users on the server. So, 20W more over the past year&#8230;  </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Users</h2>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I&#8217;m running my Friendica node on <a href="https://nerdica.net/">Nerdica.net</a> since 2013. Over the years it became one of the largest Friendica servers in the Fediverse, for some time it was the largest one. It has currently like  700 total users and 180 monthly active users. My Mastodon instance on <a href="https://nerdculture.de/">Nerdculture.de</a> has about 1000 total users and about 300 monthly active users. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Since last year I also run a Matrix-Synapse server. Although I invited my family I&#8217;m in fact the only active user on that server and have joined some channels.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">My XMPP server is even older than my Friendica node. For long time I had like maybe 20 users. Now I setup a <a href="https://hookipa.net/">new website</a> and added some domains like hookipa.net and xmpp.social the user count increased and currently I have like 130 users on those two domains and maybe like 50 monthly active users. Also note that all my Friendica and Mastodon users can use XMPP with their accounts, but won&#8217;t be counted the same way as on &#8220;native&#8221; users on ejabberd, because the auth backend is different. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">So, let&#8217;s assume I do have like 2000 total users and 500 monthly active users. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">CPU, Database Sizes and Disk I/O</h2>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Let&#8217;s have a look about how many resources are being used by those users.  </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>Database Sizes:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list"><li>Friendica (MariaDB): 31 GB for 700 users</li><li>Mastodon (PostgreSQL): 15 GB for 1000 users</li><li>Matrix-Synapse (PostgreSQL): 5 GB for 1 user</li><li>XMPP (PostgreSQL): 0.4 GB for 200 users</li></ul>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>CPU times according to xentop:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list"><li>Webserver VM (Matrix, Friendica &amp; Mastodon): 13410130 s / 130%</li><li>XMPP VM: 944275 s / 5.4%</li></ul>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Friendica does use the largest database and causes most disk I/O on NVMe, but it&#8217;s difficult to differentiate between the load between the web apps on the webserver. So, let&#8217;s have a quick look on an simple metric: </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>Number of lines in webserver logfile:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list"><li>Friendica: 11575 lines</li><li>Matrix: 8174 lines</li><li>Mastodon: 3212 lines</li></ul>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">These metrics correlate to some degree with the database I/O load, at least for Friendica. If you take into account the number of users, things look quite different.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Conclusion</h2>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Overall, and my personal impression, is that Matrix is really bad in regards of resource usage. Given that I&#8217;m the only active user it uses exceptionally many resources. When you also consider that Matrix is using a distributed database for its chat rooms, you can assume that the resource usage is multiplied across the network, making things even worse. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Friendica is using a large database and many disk accesses, but has a fairly large user base, so it seems ok, but of course should be improved. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Mastodon seems to be quite good, considering the database size, the number of log lines and the user count.  </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">XMPP turns out to be the most efficient contestant in this comparison: it uses much less CPU cycles and database disk I/O.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Of course, Mastdon/Friendica are different services than XMPP or Matrix. So, coming back to the initial question about alternatives to WhatsApp, the answer for me is: you should prefer XMPP over Matrix alone for reasons of saving resources and thus reducing power consumption. Less power consumption also means a smaller ecological footprint and fewer CO<sub>2</sub> emissions for your communication with your family and friends.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">XMPP is surely not the perfect replacement for WhatsApp, but I think it is the best thing to recommend. As said above, I don&#8217;t think that Signal is an viable option. It&#8217;s just another proprierary silo with all the problems that come with it. Matrix is a resource hog and not a messenger but a MS Teams replacement. Element as the main Matrix client is laggy and not multi-account/multi-server capable. Other Matrix clients do support multiple accounts but are not as feature-complete as Element. In the end the Matrix ecosystem will suffer from the same issues as XMPP did already a decade ago. But XMPP has learned to deal with it. </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Also XMPP is proceeding fast in the last years and it has solved many problems many people are still complaining about. Sure, there still some open issues. The situation on IOS is still not as good as on Android with Conversations, but it is fairly close to it.  </p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">There are many efforts to improve XMPP. There is <a href="https://quicksy.im/" data-type="URL" data-id="https://quicksy.im/">Quicksy IM</a>, which is a service that will use your phone number as Jabber ID/JID and is thus comparable to Signal which uses phone numbers as well as unique identifier. But Quicksy is compatible with XMPP standards. <a href="https://snikket.org/">Snikket</a> is another new XMPP ecosystem aiming at smaller groups hosting their own server by simply installing a Docker container and setup some basic SRV records in the DNS. Or there is Mailcow, a Docker based mailserver setup that <a href="https://mailcow.github.io/mailcow-dockerized-docs/u_e-xmpp-enable/" data-type="URL" data-id="https://mailcow.github.io/mailcow-dockerized-docs/u_e-xmpp-enable/">added XMPP server in their setup</a> as well, so you can have the same mail and XMPP address. Snikket even got EU based funding for implementing <a href="https://snikket.org/blog/dapsi-fund-account-portability/" data-type="URL" data-id="https://snikket.org/blog/dapsi-fund-account-portability/">XMPP Account Portability</a> which also will improve the decentralization even further. Additionally XMPP helps vaccination in Canada and USA with <a href="https://vaccine.monal.im/">vaxbot by Monal</a>.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Be smart and use ecofriendly infrastructure. </p>
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